CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- SENATE' August .2U 196J
Wirtz. Few of would have had the
endurance to st d up under such an
extended and f1 strating ordeal-and
"frustrating" is t pro r term. Some-times
the in ·cati re that headway
was being m 1er times the re-verse
was tru nwhile, the com-mittee,
1gre d the Nation are
aware the dea ne which confronts
ation if the parties to the dispute
ry out their intentions.
Mr MANSFIELD. Mr. President, will
the Senator from Washington yield?
Mr MAGNUSON. I yield.
Mr. MANSFIELD. Is it not true that
during the course of the negotiations the
majority leader on at least five. possibly
six. occasiOns held meetings in his office,
meetmgs which were attended by the
chairman of the committee, the distinguished
Senator from Washington [Mr.
MAGNUSON] and the distinguished Senator
from Rhode Island [Mr. PASTORE],
who for much of the time was acting
chairman of the committee, and with
other in teres ted Sen a tors; and that at
those times various proposals were advanced
seeking to bring about an accommodation
of the parties, seeking to bring
about an equitable settlement of the
dispute. and thereby avoid the necessity
of legislation? Is not that a correct
Mr. MAGNUSON. Not only is that a
correct statement; but the majority
leader also held conferences and worked
with the Secretary of Labor. I am sure
the majority leader talked with the
parties to the dispute themselves. Most
of the members of the committee have
Mr. MANSFIELD. No ; I must state
for the RECORD that I tried to keep the
meetings unpublic!zed and private, away
from the press, the television, and the
representatives of both sides to the dispute.
because they were not in attendance
at those meetings. It was a problem
with which the Congress was confronted,
and to which a solution had to
be found, if the parties themselves did
not agree to some sort of settlement.
So far as the distinguished Senator
from Rhode Island is concerned, he
never missed a meeting; he was always
on the lookout for a possible settlement.
He worked long qours and tried to do
the best he could.
Speaking of the unanimous vote by
which the joint resolution was reported
from committee, if my memory serves
me correctly, the Senator from Rhode
Island, after the vote on the joint resolution,
left the city and did not know
about the so-called 9-to-8 division until
he returned this morning.
Mr. PASTORE. I do not like the connotation
"left the city.'' I went home.
Mr. MANSFIELD. I stand corrected.
Mr. PASTORE. But I say to the Senator
from Montana that one thing the
Senator from Rhode Island did not do
was to get on his knees and beg both
sides to resolve their differences through
the process of collective bargaining.
Mr. MAGNUSON. That is correct.
Mr. PASTORE. Let us face the fact:
These were the issues that were pending
as of November 2, 1959. Many issues
have arisen since then. and many more
will anse in the future.
The carriers will have to live w1th the
brotherhoods. I am saying this becaus~
they are decorating our galleries today.
The brotherhoods will have to live with
the carriers. Sooner or later they will
begm to look in one another·s eyes. The
sooner they begin to look in one anothcr·s
eyes, the sooner they will begin to bring
about a better understanding between
themselves, the better off Congress will
be, the better off the country will be.
and the better off management and
labor will be in the operation of the railroads;
because this is the beginning of
nothing. This proposal will merely resolve
questions which up to this time
have been insoluble-and I can understand
why: because they are intricate,
complex. and involve the bread and butter
But let no one make a mistake: The
ultimate answer to this problem is collective
bargaining. The sooner the
parties themselves come to an understanding,
the better off everyone will be.
This is the only speech I shall make
on the joint resolution.
Mr. MANSFIELD. Mr. President. will
the Senator from Washington further
Mr. MAGNUSON. Before I yield, I
suggest to the Senator from Rhode Island
that he does not go quite far enough.
This is the first time, in a major way,
that we have been confronted with a
situation such as this. relating to what
we like to tenn general automation. It
is the same kind of dispute that involved
the airlines, in a minor way, with the
flight engineers. It is the same kind of
dispute as will evolve from many problems
on the water front and many problems
in all other forms of transportation.
This is what makes the present problem
so difficult, as the Senator from Rhode
Island points out. I am seeking to recite
for the RECORD the chronological facts,
not to get into other matters. It is a
difficult responsibility for anyone who
represents a labor group to go back to
his people and say, not that he negotiated
with respect to normal labor matters, as
to which there are historic procedures.
but with respect to something to which
that sort of_procedure no longer applies.
What is happening now is comparatively
new. A labor negotiator does not want
to go back to his people and say, "I negotiated
so that 10.000 or 15,000 of you
will lose your jobs." This is something
new; I feel certain it will occur over
and over again in the transportation industry
in the next 4 or 5 years.
I heaJtily agree with what the Senator
from Rhode I sland has said. I would
go further in this field.
I yield to the Senator from Montana.
Mr. MANSFIELD. It should be
brought out now that the Senate has before
it a joint resolution. At the meetings
which were called by the majority
leader, in addition to the presence
of the distinguished chairman of the
committee [Mr. MAGNUSON] and the distinguished
acting chairman of the committee
[Mr. PASTORE]. during the absence
of the Senator from Washington.
another Senator was in constant attend-ance--
the distinguished senior Senator
from Oregon £Mr. MoRSEl , who, in my
opinion, has one of the best minds in the
country in matters involving labor and
who has, over the years, made many
sound contributions to the betterment of
labor in this country. I wish to say to all
of them that even though the plan I suggested
did not meet with their approval,
because of conditions over which they
had no control, and although the plan
which we thought had met with approval
on Wednesday or Thursday of last week
did not come to fruition, nevertheless we
did try-and I am not saying this defensively-
to arrive at an equitable area
wherein agreement could be reached.
When the distinguished chairman of
the committee used the word "automation,"
he put his finger on the biggest difficulty
which the rail industry and other
segments of the economy face today.
Let me point out, for the RECORD, that
the day after the President sent us his
message and his proposal on the rail dispute,
the Senator from Oregon [Mr.
MORsEl introduced a joint resolution
seeking to bring about a congressional
study to cope with the problem of automation,
to the end that, insofar as possible,
in advance rather than at the end,
as seems to be the case at the present
time, I believe that the distinguished
Senator from New York £Mr. JAVITS]
joined the Senator from Oregon in the
introduction of that joint resolution at
that time. I think the RECORD should be
Mike Mansfield Papers, Series 21, Box 41, Folder 83, Mansfield Library, University of Montana
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- SENATE August 27 1963 COi'
negotiations tentative agreement was reached
with respect to portions o! such suggestions;
Whereas, on August 16, 1963, the carrier
parties to the dispute accepted and the organization
parties to the dispute accepted with
certain reservations the Secretary of Labor's
suggestion that the fireman (helper) and
crew consist sues be resolved by blncling
arbitration b the said parties have been
unable to agr upon the terms and pro-cedures
o! an bltratlon agreement: Therefore
objection, it iss
Mr. IRKSE resident, I wish
to pay stimon minority mem-bers
of t ommittee, partic-ularly
the om New Hampshire
[Mr. CoTTON 1 e Senator from Ken-tucky
[Mr. Mo J. who have been so
diligent and ass1duous in the development
of the joint resolution and in bringing
it to final passage. I believe they deserve
a special encomium on my part. I
can salute the majority mefubers of the
c~ittee, as well, for a job well done in
hry difficult and trying circumstances.
Mr. MANSFIELD. Mr. President, I
join the distinguished minority leader,
not only in what he had to say about the
minority members of the Commerce
Committee for contributing to the passage
of the joint resolution, butr also in
paying tribute to the chairman of the
committee, the Senator from Washington
[Mr. MAGNUSON], the Senator from
Rhode Island [Mr. PASTORE], who was at
times the acting chairman of the committee,
the Senator from Wyoming [Mr.
McGEE], the Senator from Michigan
[Mr. HART], and the Senator from California
[Mr. ENGLE] who each contributed
so much to working out the
difficult problems connected with this
I also pay tribute to the distinguished
senior Senator from Oregon, who, despite
the fact that he raised questions which
perhaps raised the hackles of some,
nevertheless performed a public service,
as always, in bringing questions of great
difficulty and importance before the Senate
for its consideration.
I am not by any means completely
satisfied with the joint resolution as
passed. However, sometimes we must do
the best we can under the circumstances,
in the interest of comity, and in the interest
of meeting a deadline. That was
the situation in this case.
I am sure that no Senator who voted
for the joint resolution was absolutely
~atisfied in his own mind that it was the
best answer to the problems which this
difficult situation brought to our attention,
but it was the best that we could
do under the circumstances. We hope
that tomorrow, as we anticipate, the
House will act expeditiously, that the
Congress will meet the deadline, and that
at 12:01 a.m. on Thursday next, instead
of the posting of work rules and a strike,
the trains will be running and the em-ployees
of the railroads will be performing
Mr. JAVITS. Mr. President, I have
two points which I should like to make
to the Senator. First, the Senator spoke
of automation and the Presidential Commission
on Automation. Together with
the distinguished Senator from Oregon
[Mr. MoRsEl, I have introduced a joint
resolution--Senate Joint Resolution 105.
Because the President's plan went down
the drain, it does not mean that the
question of what to do about automation
should similarly go down the drain.
Mr. MANSFIELD. I share·that hope
most sincerely, because, as has been
pointed out by the distinguished Senator
from New York and other Senators,
it is the key to the difficulties which confront
us with respect to such legislation
as we have just considered and which will
confront industry more and more in the
Mr. JAVITS. I have discussed the
subject with the Senator from Oregon
[Mr. MORSE]. He heads the subcommittee
which could give this problem a hearing.
I am pleased to inform the majority
leader that the Senator from Oregon has
assured me that he will give the bill an
early hearing, so that the Senate will
have an opportunity to consider the
question. I am sure-and this is my
reason for mentioning it now-that it
will have the cooperation of the majority
leader in respect to trying to have some
action taken upon the possibility of
creating a Presidential commission, as
requested by the President, even at this
Mr. MANSFIELD. The Senator from
New York may be assured of my support,
for whatever it Is worth. I am delighted
to know that he and the Senator from
Oregon are combining their talents to
carry out the recommendation made by
the President last month.
Mr. JAVITS. Having in mind what
the m:ajority leader has said about the
joint resolution and his own unhappiness
with it, let me state why I finally voted
for it. Perhaps it might be of some
interest to him and to other Senators.
It was a troublesome question for me.
I feared very much to undertake a course
of compulsory arbitration. But the problem
of keeping the country operating
dictated strongly to me the need for the
residual power of seizure in the President.
Also, in thinking the problem
through, I felt that the only choice which
was offered in order to keep the country
running was the joint resolution. Notwithstanding
my own desires, I felt I
could not, in good conscience, indulge
the luxury of standing out and saying,
"No," as a matter of principle, when I
knew this was the only way left, all other
routes having been exhausted.
Mr. MANSFIELD. I appr~iate the
sentiments expressed by tne distinguished
Senator from New York. While
there are few measures that satisfy any
of us completely, the joint resolution
raises many questions, so far as labor
and possible legislation in the future are
I would hope that labor would take this
As the Senator from New York says,
in effect, all we can do is to "Call them
as we see them" and "Let the cards
fall where they may." ./
Mike Mansfield Papers, Series 21, Box 41, Folder 83, Mansfield Library, University of Montana
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